Episode 19

Mathematics and God (with Dr. Justin Gash)

Today we have our first guest: Dr. Justin Gash of Franklin College.

Justin is a professor in the math department, and also assistant Dean of the college. He occasionally teaches a class on Reasonable Faith, as well as guiding independent studies of that material.

Our conversation is about his own intellectual/spiritual journey, what he has learned from teaching these classes, and what he thinks about the arguments for God's existence.

In our next episode, Dr. Gash will walk us through his favorite argument for the existence of God: the moral argument.

Transcript
Speaker:

Hi, this is Daniel.

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I'm Nathan.

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And we have a, guest here with us today.

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Yeah.

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First time excited for that.

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So we've got Dr.

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Justin gash with us today.

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Justin, how are you doing?

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I'm doing very well yourself.

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Good.

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Excited to get into the

content of today's episode.

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Yeah, me too.

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You know, this is the first

guest that we have had on.

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Yeah.

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So.

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I'm thrilled in, you should be honored.

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I am honored.

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And I feel a little bit of pressure.

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Uh, we'll see.

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Yeah.

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Well, no pressure, no pressure.

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I was wondering if you could begin

our time by sharing a little bit

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about who you are and what you do.

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And.

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how our interests have converged

to bring you here today.

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Sure.

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I am a professor of mathematics

at Franklin college.

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and because I work at Franklin college,

my wife and I moved to Franklin.

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In 2011 and.

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When we arrived in may of 2011, we,

needed a church, to make our home.

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And so we Google searched.

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Churches and Franklin.

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And the one that was closest to our

house was Franklin community church.

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And so we thought,

well, we'll start there.

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and when we arrived, we.

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Had a community that we were

able to plug into right away.

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It turned out that a third of my

department at Franklin college already

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intended Franklin community church.

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And that's how I got to know.

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Pastor Dan.

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Um, and Andrew, you got to know pastor

Dan and we met you at that time though.

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You were, much younger.

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Yeah.

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He was a kid man.

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We all were.

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You were in Cannes for a brief time.

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You were shorter than I was.

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I'll always treasure those moments.

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In terms of our conversation

today, I had a hip replacement.

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Surgery in 2016.

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pastor Daniel.

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came by the house to visit me.

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And.

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He gave me a book called reasonable faith.

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And he said, I think you will enjoy.

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Reading this.

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And so I, I read it, one of the silver

linings of recovering from a surgery.

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Is that.

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You really do have to take time out.

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Because you can't, you can't do things.

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So when someone offers you

a book, you can read it.

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And I was just blown away.

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I was, I was blown away, by

the apologetics arguments.

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they were stated in a way that.

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Appealed to me mathematically.

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Because of my vocation.

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I really enjoyed the systematic approach.

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to making arguments for the

existence of God and in the case

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of the book, reasonable faith.

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Also an argument for the historicity

of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

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And from there, I just had opportunities

to integrate that into my job.

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We do independent studies in

the mathematics and computing

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department at Franklin college.

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So I had.

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an opportunity to, have

an independent study.

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With a few students, one of

whom is you Nathan Beasley.

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Was that the, was that the first one?

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And that was the very first one.

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Wow.

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Yeah, I got good memories

of that with, and.

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Those conversations in my office were.

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Just amazing and, intellectually

fulfilling, but also

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spiritually meaningful.

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and then we developed a new first-year

seminar at Franklin college and

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faculty were invited to speak.

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To run a class on any topic they

thought would be interesting.

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So I started teaching.

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from.

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reasonable faith and a few other

texts as well from CS Lewis and.

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Timothy Keller.

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Yeah.

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. I think it's curious.

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And I think a lot of people

would probably like to know.

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All right.

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You're teaching a, not really a

religious college at all record.

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College is known for that.

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And you're teaching in the math department

because that's where your PhD is.

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And yet somehow you got approval to

teach a class focused on apologetics.

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Was that difficult?

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not terribly, no.

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the administration and my colleagues

wanted to make sure it wasn't a

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course that was proselytizing.

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which I appreciate.

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But we're a liberal arts college

and ultimately our mission, is To

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speak to all the ways that people

can apprehend and comprehend.

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Reality.

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and our mathematics computing department

has never been terribly one dimensional.

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We have faculty who teach the history

of the cold war through board games.

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we have, of Pixar course,

we had a colleague.

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Uh, what, uh, the math of Pixar.

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So The cartoon company

underneath the Disney umbrella.

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Interesting.

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Um, looking at the mathematics they use.

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Okay.

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So I think what was most critical is

that it was a topic that I was interested

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in that has intellectual value.

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and it was something that students,

when appeal to students who are coming

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in for their first semester of college.

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And one in something that

they were interested in.

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And God.

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So they got to pick which first

year seminar course they took.

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Yes.

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We offer somewhere between

15 and 17 and, and.

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And they.

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rank order their top three.

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And then they, they do get an option

of saying no way, not this course.

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So there's there's one course.

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They can just say, I don't care

what the numbers are looking like.

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You can't put me into this course.

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And it turned out there is a.

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What I suspected, which is that

there's a chunk of students.

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That are really interested to speak about.

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reasonable faith and the

intersection of faith and reason.

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Great.

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So I was going to ask a question

related to the demographics.

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Of course, all the students are

interested in reasonable faith.

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Did you find that most of them had

similar religious backgrounds or similar

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religious beliefs even in the course?

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Or was there diversity?

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this most recent.

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Time that I taught the course.

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It was.

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Fairly uniformly Christian.

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But the first time I taught the course.

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That was not the case.

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we had.

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Muslim student.

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We had.

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It's tough to nailed down

exactly what students' fates are

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because I kind of steered clear of

interrogating them in that regard.

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Um, do you believe.

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Yes, and then I will grade it.

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but I would say two to three

students who were atheist.

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and some other students who are agnostic.

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and then amongst the Christians, which was

still the largest proportion of the class.

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There were, Catholics and Protestants.

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There were students who might

be best described as not.

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terribly engaged with

their faith at the moment.

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Others that were very engaged

with their faith at that moment.

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And so there is a diversity.

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There is a diversity there.

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and I think what's interesting

about apologetics arguments.

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And we might get into this later.

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I might be jumping the gun here, but.

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Is that.

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Even for someone who's in a Mamie,

a member of a different worldview

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to use the language of your podcast.

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there are still really relevant.

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To understanding.

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what it is you believe and how

livable your belief system is.

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And how coherent it is all

really all three of them.

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And so.

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Even students who began the course, as.

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Atheist and ended the course is atheist.

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Still added so much to the course.

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And I think got a lot out of the course.

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And so it was a real,

it was a real pleasure.

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Awesome.

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Yeah.

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Sure digression.

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I believe you've had A promotion.

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Lately haven't you.

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I have, I am the assistant Dean.

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Of Franklin college.

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So I'm half administration, half faculty.

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So an academic waters.

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We would say that I joined the dark side.

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but I, enjoy the, the half and half

role because I like the problem solving

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and the administration, but ultimately.

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my vocation is, with students.

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I enjoy.

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I enjoy the classroom and

I enjoy being the students.

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Great.

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While we're on the digression of

the ins and outs of your jobs.

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What kinds of math classes do you teach?

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Yeah.

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So we are all generalists at.

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Franklin college.

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So essentially that means every

faculty member in the mathematics

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and computing department can teach.

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Any mathematics course.

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so I teach anything from our liberal

arts mathematics course that would

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typically be taking my non-majors.

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All the way up through the 300 level

theory courses for mathematics majors.

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So my particular area of interest is.

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Modern algebra.

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but in between LA 1 0 3 in modern

algebra, I also teach calculus one.

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And calculus two.

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And, our intro to computing course.

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And then when I can.

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Of course called theory of computation.

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which is more of a computer science.

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Course, but it's theoretical.

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So, it's heavy on the math.

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Gotcha.

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So you've taught the first

year seminar a couple of times.

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Yes I have.

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And then separately you teach

a class on reasonable faith.

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Yes.

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That really focuses

explicitly on the book.

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And by the way, I don't think

we've mentioned the author of

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that book is William Lane, Craig.

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Yes.

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So in my independent study.

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we spend time going through the

entire, text by William Lane,

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Craig called reasonable faith.

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It's a bit dense.

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That would have been difficult for

me to read through that whole thing.

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Assimilate that very well.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it's difficult for.

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Me to assimilate it well, and I've tried

to assimilate it several times, but I'm

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teaching an independent study right now.

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Uh, which isn't actually

terribly independent in it.

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It has 11 students enrolled in it.

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So it's basically.

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Just an underground, extra

class at this point, it's like

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a full-size classroom, frankly.

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Call it.

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That's a respectable size class.

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but I still learn.

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Things that I hadn't

paid attention to before.

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great.

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So a couple of questions

came to my mind about this.

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Obviously your background and

your expertise is mathematics.

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That's what your PhD is.

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And that's what you've been teaching.

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So, how does that correlate with

this emphasis on apologetics?

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Where's the overlap there?

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That's a great question.

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Thank you.

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You're welcome.

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I usually don't get to ask the question.

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So.

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probably the place to start.

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and though it may sound trite is in

the discipline of critical thinking.

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Okay.

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So In a mathematics class.

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You are analyzing the

properties of objects.

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And so part of the, discipline.

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Is rigorously defining the objects and the

properties that you want to investigate.

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And then being very precise

when you do your investigations.

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you think critically about the

scope of a particular word, you

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know, is it appropriate for this.

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Context.

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have I proven all the

necessary components?

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in this proof.

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Or is my proof incomplete.

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Am I making.

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I want to say.

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Logical steps that are.

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I don't know what the philosophical

term would be, but appropriate.

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you know, non, non fallacious.

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And maybe the best example I can

think of that relates to this podcast.

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And perhaps the episode prior to this one

is with the column cosmological argument.

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So one of the premises there.

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Uh, is everything that begins to exist.

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Hasn't cause.

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That phrase begins to exist.

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Turns out to be.

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Critically important.

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And if you were to do a cursory review

of, critiques, online, if you went

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to YouTube, And looked at critiques

of the column, cosmological argument.

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A lot of the counterexamples presented.

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Would be things that don't begin to exist.

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You can find examples of.

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The numbers numbers is the exactly

the thing I was going to list.

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Um, they're like, well, you

know, someone will pause it.

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Well, these don't have a cause.

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But they never began to exist.

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Right.

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So they're outside the

scope of the premise.

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That kind of thinking is.

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probably the number one thing.

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that overlaps the

discipline of mathematics.

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and apologetics.

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Okay.

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So some of the preciseness and

exactness of the terminology.

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You have to have that

when you're talking about.

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Some of these arguments.

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In a very.

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Deep way.

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Yes, I would say so.

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And of course, when you look at the,

defense of some of the, arguments,

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mathematics comes in handy, right?

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so for the tele illogical argument,

probability theory is, Worthwhile.

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thing to be fluent in.

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and then of course there's just the.

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syllogisms of the arguments

themselves, though.

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My experience has been that.

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Though that's quite accessible.

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It's it's when you

interrogate each premise.

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That the mathematics major, um, or

that discipline that disposition.

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Okay.

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Analytical disposition comes in handy.

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Great.

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Okay.

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So you're talking about the

overlap in, mathematics and.

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Faith.

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at apologetics.

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And I remember taking discrete math

with you and we worked on proofs.

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Yes.

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And we try to logically prove certain.

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I don't know.

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What did we try to prove?

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Oh, properties about, even number

plus an even number is even, yeah.

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our.

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A rational number plus a

rational number is rational.

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, just remember the language

of proving being very common.

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And so, thinking about apologetics, do

you feel like it's possible to prove God's

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existence with some of these arguments?

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No.

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As the heretic.

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Why don't we bring this guy on?

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That completes my analysis.

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Next.

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No I'm with you.

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Yeah.

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I don't, I don't think so.

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and.

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I'm ultimately a lay person.

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So I want to make that clear

I'm on a podcast with, two

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people who actually have.

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Graduate degrees.

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and so I would yield.

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To your analysis.

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But I would say this.

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It would seem like in order to

prove the existence of God with

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an argument, you'd have to have.

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An airtight definition of.

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Whom God is.

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And I don't think we can fully capture.

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In words.

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Who and what.

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Got is If someone approached

me was saying that I've,

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proven the existence of God.

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I wouldn't be keen on asking.

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How did you capture.

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That term.

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When I think we can do is a more.

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modest approach, . I'm going

to answer this question from

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a Christian point of view.

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We can come to better

understand who God is.

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By thinking, using the

gifts he provides us.

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The ability to reason.

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the ability to, Formulate inferences

from our experience, we can

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better understand who God is.

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With apologetics arguments.

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and we can communicate.

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Some of the facets.

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Of who God is.

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With people of our own faith and from

people of different faiths and worldviews.

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I think that is doable.

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But I'm, Highly skeptical

of the ability to prove.

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God's existence and I'm also skeptical of.

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Whether it would be ultimately valuable.

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If we could prove God's existence.

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Yeah.

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I'm with you on that, but why don't

you explain what you mean by that?

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Part.

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Of.

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The value of faith is the choice to trust.

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And I may be.

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I'm a listener to this podcast.

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So I may actually be, repeating something.

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That I learned from the podcast.

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Are you going to plagiarize?

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I am.

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So I have you write your citations.

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And Chicago.

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To read about writing in Chicago.

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PA all the way.

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That's my.

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Well, you are the Dean.

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Very firm opinion on that.

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but it's, the choice of

trust that has all the value.

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it's not a perfect analogy, but.

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I think of what's the other

most critical relationship.

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I have in my life, besides

the relationship with God and

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his relationship with my wife.

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What.

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Makes it magical and meaningful.

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Is that.

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We choose to build a life together

and we choose to trust one another.

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I can't.

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Prove.

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that.

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She's always going to have

my best interest at heart.

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But I trust that she does, and

she trusts me in the same way.

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And I, think that you lose that

opportunity for trust when you have.

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Knowledge.

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No, I don't trust that integration works.

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I know calculus works.

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So that would be my attempt.

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Okay.

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Do you feel like, um, good stuff?

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Yeah.

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That's good stuff.

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Do you think that studying apologetics?

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Makes you have to trust less

because you have some of these.

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arguments for the existence

of God that are reasonable.

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And helpful.

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That is an awesome question.

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And I have not thought

about that question.

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I'm better than my question though.

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Right?

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AMRI one's questions are good.

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I'm sorry, go ahead.

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No, I that's.

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That's such a great question.

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Or even for you personally, I mean, do

you feel like apologetics has been helpful

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for your faith or detrimental because.

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Faith when you can see

is no longer phase.

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Yeah, I think there's.

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still so much.

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So many dimensions of.

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God.

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Certainly the Christian God.

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There's there's so many

dimensions beyond what.

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The apologetics arguments

that I'm familiar with.

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tackle.

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That I don't feel like it has.

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Lessen my faith.

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I think it has strengthened

my faith in the sense that.

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I feel like I am a deeper connection.

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With God.

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I also think it's energizing.

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it's.

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an energizing thing.

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To think about.

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The interplay between God's creation.

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and how I fit into it.

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So for example, the kilohm

cosmological argument.

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Paints the picture of not just some,

not just a being in God that has.

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Immense power.

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But it speaks to a creator.

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Who has.

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willed existence?

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To be.

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And that allows me to infer.

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That.

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Hey, I'm a part of creation as well.

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This God must really.

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Love me.

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And I must have some sort of part to play.

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Does that make sense?

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So it builds the faith in that way.

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What it doesn't tell me is

what the heck my part exactly

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is I have to live that out.

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and it certainly doesn't tell me.

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With any kind of precision.

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Y and I'm Power.

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Would choose to create

a universe and that.

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I would be in it and

that you would be in it.

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And all those kinds of things.

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So we just talked about that.

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Yeah.

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So it only takes you so far.

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It only takes us so far.

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I would liken it to use

some jargon from education.

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I think apologetics is

about a growth mindset.

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And I actually did not

think of that ahead of time.

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So I'm kind of going on a.

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Well, let's see if it works out good.

485

:

Go ahead.

486

:

I'll give it a shot, but When we

talk to our students about what we

487

:

want in the context of college, we

want them to have a growth mindset.

488

:

We want them.

489

:

Seeking.

490

:

To incorporate new information and

new experiences that help them home.

491

:

They're understanding.

492

:

Of the world around them.

493

:

And that process never ends.

494

:

if you're a lifelong learner

and you're always doing that.

495

:

and I see apologetics as a springboard

to a great part of the growth mindset.

496

:

That.

497

:

one has in a relationship that's building.

498

:

with God and.

499

:

The idea is that your relationship

with God is continually growing.

500

:

Yeah.

501

:

and I think apologetics

have a role to play in that.

502

:

One of the things Nathan

I've talked about.

503

:

In one of the previous episodes.

504

:

I don't remember which one.

505

:

But fairly early, we talked

about faith and doubt.

506

:

And.

507

:

We borrowed a seven.

508

:

numbers system.

509

:

Of certainty.

510

:

So the number seven you're absolutely

certain God is as, there's not an

511

:

intellectual doubt in your mind.

512

:

If you're at a one.

513

:

You absolutely know

that God does not exist.

514

:

It's not even a plausible scenario.

515

:

And.

516

:

number six would be.

517

:

Yeah, you're fairly

certain that God exists.

518

:

There's room for ambiguity

and doubt sometimes.

519

:

But, you know, it's, it's

a constant belief of yours.

520

:

Bye.

521

:

It would be a little bit less than

that forward to be completely neutral.

522

:

Three would be okay.

523

:

I don't think God exists,

but I'm really open to it.

524

:

And two would be probably not.

525

:

I don't think there's a God.

526

:

I'm not saying it's not possible.

527

:

And one of the things we talked about.

528

:

Or at least I think we did.

529

:

Is that.

530

:

Apologetics, can help you.

531

:

Get further up the scale or at

least not bottom out on the scale.

532

:

' cause I think if you're at a one

or two, you're going to have a

533

:

very hard time having any sort.

534

:

Of religious faith.

535

:

Whereas someone can be at

a, maybe a four or five.

536

:

And still have a very vibrant faith.

537

:

They're just believing in spite

of intellectual doubts, it's more

538

:

thing than an intellectual thing.

539

:

All that to say, have you

seen that in your own life

540

:

or the life of your students?

541

:

That dynamic?

542

:

In my life.

543

:

The answer is yes.

544

:

I have seen that.

545

:

I would say that for.

546

:

Mantra my life, I probably

would have been amount of 4.5.

547

:

You have to allow me to use decimals.

548

:

Math guys like specific, you know, I.

549

:

He's just using it to the 10th decimal.

550

:

Hundreds.

551

:

That's right.

552

:

I was really it's 1.5 PI is really why.

553

:

Um, okay.

554

:

So you're at a 4.5, but

I think in the last.

555

:

In the last decade.

556

:

Okay.

557

:

That has increased to about a 5.5.

558

:

Okay.

559

:

and so you see that incremental

increase, but it's still modest.

560

:

I do not.

561

:

Think I'm anywhere near.

562

:

Seven.

563

:

Gotcha.

564

:

Um,

565

:

I have seen that kind of

growth with my students.

566

:

but usually what I'm going

for in the classroom.

567

:

Is to convince.

568

:

Students.

569

:

That belief in God.

570

:

Is reasonable.

571

:

I honestly also seek to convince students

that not believing in God is reasonable.

572

:

So I want, to make sure that students.

573

:

Uh, how do I want to say.

574

:

Maybe make sure is either a poor

phrasing or a shortcoming of

575

:

mine pedagogically, but I am wary

of one in seven on that scale.

576

:

it's hard to grow.

577

:

Grow.

578

:

If you're in those spots.

579

:

Okay.

580

:

and in, my experience, I think students.

581

:

Who are believers in a Christian

or, Islam or Jewish worldview?

582

:

Do get something out of the

critiques of the apologetics

583

:

arguments they typically buy into.

584

:

And subscribed to the apologetics

arguments, but it matters that they

585

:

can see where doubt might arise.

586

:

And for, those of an atheist worldview,

or I think the worldview you're

587

:

using is philosophical naturalism.

588

:

Which would adequately describe?

589

:

I think all of the students I've

had in my class who were atheist.

590

:

I've seen the growth in them

accepting that a reasonable person

591

:

could accept the premises of these

arguments that, they're reasonable.

592

:

Okay.

593

:

I liked that you said you're

wary of one and seven.

594

:

I feel like personally.

595

:

it's a question of intellectual honesty.

596

:

When you're talking about God,

who, as you mentioned before, is

597

:

it's hard to really specifically

define what that is or who that is.

598

:

it w it would be extremely hard.

599

:

I think, an intellectually

dishonest for somebody to suggest

600

:

that they have absolute certainty.

601

:

The seven, I think the seven would be.

602

:

And I think the seven would

be particularly difficult

603

:

for somebody to ascribe, to.

604

:

Or at least, they haven't heard

some of the counter-arguments

605

:

or, are maybe Really young.

606

:

I don't want to be insulting,

but you know what I mean?

607

:

I'm going to push back on

that a little bit, so, okay.

608

:

Well,

609

:

You have to remember that.

610

:

There are different

ways of knowing things.

611

:

And a lot of people have

such direct experience.

612

:

With.

613

:

God or some sort of supernatural thing.

614

:

In various ways that to them, it is.

615

:

Uh, kind of self, a testing knowledge.

616

:

They have a.

617

:

Almost a direct, immediate experience.

618

:

They have a story.

619

:

And people are wired different ways.

620

:

So maybe for some of them.

621

:

The could be a seven, not because

they've examined all the arguments.

622

:

And I've come to that place.

623

:

But it's more of an intuitive thing.

624

:

Yeah, but I could be wrong.

625

:

That's actually, really good pushback.

626

:

I think I'm thinking in, the realm of,

if you've looked at some arguments,

627

:

maybe you're more analytically minded.

628

:

I think it would be hard.

629

:

To be able to prove God's existence

from, from one of these arguments.

630

:

So.

631

:

That's a good point.

632

:

And well, well taken.

633

:

And it does speak to the question of what

we mean when we talk about knowledge.

634

:

Because without question, when I answered

that last question, Without question.

635

:

Just Rowan's question.

636

:

Anyway.

637

:

Um, when I answered that last

question, I was thinking about

638

:

my role in the classroom.

639

:

Right.

640

:

And in that sense, The discourse

is primarily intellectual, right?

641

:

Yeah.

642

:

but.

643

:

I would certainly say.

644

:

Earlier I made a comment about how.

645

:

I don't know, intellectually that my

wife has my best interest in heart.

646

:

But if you asked me with a different

sense of know, like, do I know.

647

:

Oh, I know, I know a hundred

percent that she's got.

648

:

Because of my experience in.

649

:

The marriage relationship.

650

:

I know I have complete confidence in that.

651

:

So.

652

:

Ironing out what, knowledge

we're talking about.

653

:

or one component.

654

:

Yeah, well, this is where I yield to.

655

:

People who have actually

had philosophy courses.

656

:

Well, there's a really beautiful overlap

here because we're talking about how

657

:

helpful apologetics can be in philosophy

can be to help support the faith.

658

:

But and the Christian perspective,

not about knowledge about God.

659

:

It is about intimate.

660

:

Knowledge with God,

just like you described.

661

:

In your relationship with your spouse?

662

:

So apologetics.

663

:

I do help just like knowing about

my wife can help me, but knowing

664

:

things, knowing facts about

her is not, it's not the point.

665

:

Let me ask you, this is we're

still talking about the classroom.

666

:

And you've gone through

this book with them.

667

:

It's a substantive book.

668

:

It's a little bit challenging.

669

:

Have you found that there are

some sections though, that the

670

:

students really resonate with.

671

:

And then part B of that.

672

:

Are there some that really

resonate with you more than others?

673

:

Yes.

674

:

And he S okay.

675

:

I'll start with part a.

676

:

, I wouldn't say the tele

illogical argument.

677

:

Well just summarize that

because not everyone meets.

678

:

Yeah, absolutely.

679

:

So.

680

:

the premises of the tele

illogical argument are.

681

:

The universe.

682

:

is either due to necessity.

683

:

A chance.

684

:

Or design.

685

:

The second premise would be in is

not due to chance or necessity.

686

:

So the conclusion would be

that it is due to design.

687

:

Nice little soldiers.

688

:

Y.

689

:

Thank you.

690

:

I did not invent that syllogism.

691

:

And so I, they, that

appeals very, very strongly.

692

:

And I think it's because, we

live in the 21st century and, our

693

:

scientific explanations of not

only our world, but our universe.

694

:

weigh heavily on students.

695

:

And.

696

:

Unlike the content from several

other of the, traditional or

697

:

mainstream apologetic arguments.

698

:

They've had 12 years of education.

699

:

It's a 13, if you include kindergarten.

700

:

talking about science.

701

:

So in the tele illogical argument, The

scientific literature and analysis.

702

:

Really works for them.

703

:

and They deeply question

whether if by chance.

704

:

Based on the scientific descriptions

in the material universe.

705

:

If the universe would, spring into

existence and would actually still exist.

706

:

And they see no reason to

think it's necessary that the.

707

:

universe exists.

708

:

So they find the argument

compelling then in is from design.

709

:

And probably the second most is

the Calum cosmological argument.

710

:

Okay.

711

:

And we talked about that in our

last episode, if people are so

712

:

interested in going deeper, Yes.

713

:

.

So for your students, either the teleological argument or the

714

:

Columbia cosmological argument.

715

:

And then how about for yourself?

716

:

The, moral argument would be my favorite.

717

:

Okay.

718

:

And I know we've got some

discussion about that.

719

:

You're going to kind of walk

us through a little bit.

720

:

From your perspective and from

teaching that, We're already

721

:

a half hour into this episode.

722

:

Why don't we.

723

:

Call it a day for this episode.

724

:

And then come back in the next episode.

725

:

We'll talk more about that.

726

:

We'll let you explain why this

argument speaks to you so much.

727

:

Maybe you develop it a little bit here.

728

:

Some.

729

:

Counter-arguments and then

how you might respond to that.

730

:

Does that sound good?

731

:

That sounds like a plan.

732

:

All right.

733

:

So for this episode, I just

want to thank you again.

734

:

This has been really fun.

735

:

It's fun for me to be on the asking side.

736

:

So thank you again, and we'll

catch you here at the next episode.

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